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I'm worried that the overweight will be shunned in the workplace and these new rules will make no one want to hire them.
What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? "I was molested by perverts on a train when I was a primary school student." |
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Japan Today's Taro Fujimoto dropped into Hibya to ask:
What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains?
"I was molested by perverts on a train when I was a primary school student. My sister suffers from groping almost every morning on the train. Women-only cars on trains are good but they are not practical because they are always at the end of the train." |
"I was so shocked to hear the news that a woman intentionally accused a man of groping her on the train as part of a scam to get money. I think we should avoid rush hour on the train as much as possible. The only sure way to avoid a false accusation like that is not to be on the train in the first place, and to do that would require a major change in lifestyle." |
"One of the reasons why a woman could easily accuse a man of groping to get money is that many gropers think the problem can be solved with money even if they are caught. False accusations in Japan do not happen only in groping but also in other crimes. Police should be more careful before they file charges and judges should make sure justice is served." |
"I've been feeling scared to take the train after hearing the news about the false groping accusation. I really feel sorry for the man. Police should carefully examine the stories of both the accused and accuser in cases like this, and judges should by fair, and not just automatically side with the woman." |
"I've just talked about it with my family. My father and brother were having a serious talk about how to avoid being the target of a false groping accusation on the train. The whole problem is the result of women getting seriously fed up with gropers. Women-only cars are welcome, but they are always at the end of the train, which is often inconvenient when commuting in the morning." |
"I think because women wait until after the groping has finished, they fail to catch the right guy and point the finger at some innocent man. I feel sorry for the victims of false accusations of groping on trains." |
March 18, 2008
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and if there were no false accusations, there would be no issue either. while expression may be lacking, i think the point SOE is trying to make (and i think it is a good one) is that women should first vocalize and draw attention so that there are independant witnesses instead of letting it go on. unless they can come up with something else like analyzing fibers from the accused's fingers, its a difficult situation as the "proof" is one person's word against the other's and in that case they should both be given equal weight.
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Japan Today Discussion
22 Total Messages (Click here to show all)
15 Messages Shown (Scroll down for most recent)
| "heaven forbid you should walk 80 feet |  |
Sarge   (Mar 19 2008 - 15:37) | Rate | Report |
not to be groped"
Heaven forbid men should behave themselves.
Heaven forbid men should behave themselves.
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| fds (Mar 19 2008 - 15:39) | Rate | Report |
If there were no gropers, there would be no issue.
and if there were no false accusations, there would be no issue either. while expression may be lacking, i think the point SOE is trying to make (and i think it is a good one) is that women should first vocalize and draw attention so that there are independant witnesses instead of letting it go on. unless they can come up with something else like analyzing fibers from the accused's fingers, its a difficult situation as the "proof" is one person's word against the other's and in that case they should both be given equal weight.
| Nakasone, 25: | |
| Sarge (Mar 19 2008 - 15:44) | Rate | Report |
"My sister suffers from groping almost every morning on the train"
I hope her sister gets a Taser gun and uses it, because it can be very difficult to knee someone's groin on a packed train.
I hope her sister gets a Taser gun and uses it, because it can be very difficult to knee someone's groin on a packed train.
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| toolonggone (Mar 19 2008 - 16:45) | Rate | Report |
While I feel very sorry for anyone who is falsely accused of any type of crime, I can feel the tide on this issue shifting very quickly against women and it really worries me. For every person who has been falsely accused I'd hate to even hazard a guess as to how many hundreds and thousands of women have been groped or worse and have neither accused anyone nor told anyone but suffered in silence. I am not trying in any way to say that this justifies making a false accusation but it seems like the media has decided to look at this from one point of view and that being the one of men. How about the media talking about how often women get groped, why so many women don't feel comfortable saying anything about it and how society can change this problem without segragating men and women.
nitro: heaven forbid you should walk 80feet to not be groped..
Why in the world should a women have to stand in a separate car in order to avoid being groped? The onus is on the criminal to stop the criminal behavior. It is not on the victim. We are not talking about walking alone and naked through a park at night. We are talking about commuting, a necessity for most of us, on public trains. Women choosing to ride in the same trains as men in no way means they are saying it's okay for men to grope them, at least not in the non-Taliban part of the world.
SOE: It then becomes difficult to tell if the woman WANTED the attention or NOT.
Comments like that make it difficult for me to tell if you're simply making them because you want attention. Are you in the habit of groping women until they tell you to stop or do you politely ask first if they WANT the attention and then proceed with the molestation?
nitro: heaven forbid you should walk 80feet to not be groped..
Why in the world should a women have to stand in a separate car in order to avoid being groped? The onus is on the criminal to stop the criminal behavior. It is not on the victim. We are not talking about walking alone and naked through a park at night. We are talking about commuting, a necessity for most of us, on public trains. Women choosing to ride in the same trains as men in no way means they are saying it's okay for men to grope them, at least not in the non-Taliban part of the world.
SOE: It then becomes difficult to tell if the woman WANTED the attention or NOT.
Comments like that make it difficult for me to tell if you're simply making them because you want attention. Are you in the habit of groping women until they tell you to stop or do you politely ask first if they WANT the attention and then proceed with the molestation?
| Not knowledgeable about this issue...... | |
| apecNetworks (Mar 19 2008 - 17:16) | Rate | Report |
but I would think that if the "only females" sections are being well used, to get at least two sections - one 1/3 down and the other 2/3 down. Been exposed to Japanese females politics w/ males - very sophisticated.
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| Wottock_Hunt (Mar 19 2008 - 17:38) | Rate | Report |
Why do so many respondents turn their back on the camera? Seems a bit rude to me.
| Wottock_Hunt | |
| fireant (Mar 19 2008 - 22:33) | Rate | Report |
Because they don't want their picture splashed all over the Internet, especially Nakasone who, if anyone knows her probably knows her sister and will want to do or watch the groping she puts up with everyday.
I agree, however, that is 'looks' rude. Kitahara and Kogo have the right idea: no photo.
I agree, however, that is 'looks' rude. Kitahara and Kogo have the right idea: no photo.
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| apecNetwork (Mar 20 2008 - 00:29) | Rate | Report |
Women who make groping claims that cannot be proven beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt need to be thrown in prison.
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| nisegaijin (Mar 20 2008 - 10:17) | Rate | Report |
one dude should make an example out of false grouping accusers by
countersuing the woman who falsely accused him
suing the rail company for detaining him against his will
suing police department for mishandling intrrogation process
suing his company for firing him as soon as they got a phone call that he has been detained.
that dude can win millions!
countersuing the woman who falsely accused him
suing the rail company for detaining him against his will
suing police department for mishandling intrrogation process
suing his company for firing him as soon as they got a phone call that he has been detained.
that dude can win millions!
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| Hcupjammerz (Mar 20 2008 - 12:48) | Rate | Report |
I'm waiting to see what happens to the first gaijin to be accused of this. Bet the J-media, keystones and most of JT would condemn him without any evidence or trial.
| Condemn him without any evidence or trial. | |
| nycsamurai (Mar 21 2008 - 02:43) | Rate | Report |
Really scary thought isn't it.
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| erlik (Mar 22 2008 - 10:22) | Rate | Report |
I wonder what Nakasone's sister's standard for "groping" is? In a packed train, if a man's hand brushes against her, does she consider herself groped?
I've taken the train in Tokyo to and from work during rush hour every weekday for the past 6 years, and have yet to see groping occur or see anyone be accused of groping. Based on the statistics commonly given, this would seem to be highly improbable, if not impossible.
So I can't help but wonder if women have a much lower standard of what "groping" entails, or if we've come to a point where women are actually lying to the poll-takers out of a desire to fit in socially or to assert their attractiveness (i.e., they're pretty enough that men want to grope them).
I'm sure I'll get bashed for this, so let me clarify: if groping actually IS happening at the levels reported, it is a serious issue and we need cameras or other measures to deal with it. And I in no way defend groping. But the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...
I've taken the train in Tokyo to and from work during rush hour every weekday for the past 6 years, and have yet to see groping occur or see anyone be accused of groping. Based on the statistics commonly given, this would seem to be highly improbable, if not impossible.
So I can't help but wonder if women have a much lower standard of what "groping" entails, or if we've come to a point where women are actually lying to the poll-takers out of a desire to fit in socially or to assert their attractiveness (i.e., they're pretty enough that men want to grope them).
I'm sure I'll get bashed for this, so let me clarify: if groping actually IS happening at the levels reported, it is a serious issue and we need cameras or other measures to deal with it. And I in no way defend groping. But the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...
| What do you think about the false accusation of groping against men on trains? | |
| toolonggone (Mar 22 2008 - 17:57) | Rate | Report |
erlik: I'm sure I'll get bashed for this, so let me clarify: if groping actually IS happening at the levels reported, it is a serious issue and we need cameras or other measures to deal with it. And I in no way defend groping. But the truth is usually somewhere in the middle...
Most likely the numbers are actually much lower than reported. Given the difficulty of finding the person who groped you on a crowded train, the intimidation factor involved in getting some help in having that person apprehended, the intimidation factor in dealing with a mainly male police force for a sensitive topic, I'd safely bet that most women suffer in silence. If anything, the media's recent focus on the few, unfortunate cases of false accusations (of which some were probably simple mistaken identities) is only going to intimidate women into continuing to suffer in silence. Realistically, it's not that hard to know when someone has innocently brushed up against you or is trying to have a go so while I won't bash you for your comments, I would think you could give women a little more credit. And just because you haven't seen it happen has little bearing on anything. I've never seen a lot of things that I'm sure occur on a regular basis.
Most likely the numbers are actually much lower than reported. Given the difficulty of finding the person who groped you on a crowded train, the intimidation factor involved in getting some help in having that person apprehended, the intimidation factor in dealing with a mainly male police force for a sensitive topic, I'd safely bet that most women suffer in silence. If anything, the media's recent focus on the few, unfortunate cases of false accusations (of which some were probably simple mistaken identities) is only going to intimidate women into continuing to suffer in silence. Realistically, it's not that hard to know when someone has innocently brushed up against you or is trying to have a go so while I won't bash you for your comments, I would think you could give women a little more credit. And just because you haven't seen it happen has little bearing on anything. I've never seen a lot of things that I'm sure occur on a regular basis.
| toolonggone | |
| erlik (Mar 23 2008 - 11:30) | Rate | Report |
I would think you could give women a little more credit.
But shouldn't you as well? You're essentially saying that many or most women are too weak to deal with the process of reporting the crime, so they just accept being groped. While I'm sure this is true for a certain number of victims, how many is impossible to know. Nakasone's sister is groped almost daily, yet does nothing about it? She doesn't make it a point to take the women-only car, and never reaches a point where she just gets so tired of it that she finally starts grabbing the guys and turning them in? It seems rather odd to me.
The problem I have with saying sexual assault numbers are "much higher than reported" and that "women are suffering in silence" is that it's (rather handily) unprovable and it does a disservice to all men and women generally -- suddenly all women must be treated like poor, weak little victims and all men must be penalized in some way or regarded with distrust (after all, if the number of secret women victims is high, the number of secret rapists must be high as well).
I think both women and men should be agitating for trains to be loaded up with tiny cameras, so we can finally get to the truth of the matter. But then, that also requires an accusation for the tape to be studied, and if women are too frightened to accuse... Well, we can't really get anywhere, then, can we? Unless Japan becomes a matriarchy and men have no power, so finally maybe women will feel OK about accusing them of groping...
But shouldn't you as well? You're essentially saying that many or most women are too weak to deal with the process of reporting the crime, so they just accept being groped. While I'm sure this is true for a certain number of victims, how many is impossible to know. Nakasone's sister is groped almost daily, yet does nothing about it? She doesn't make it a point to take the women-only car, and never reaches a point where she just gets so tired of it that she finally starts grabbing the guys and turning them in? It seems rather odd to me.
The problem I have with saying sexual assault numbers are "much higher than reported" and that "women are suffering in silence" is that it's (rather handily) unprovable and it does a disservice to all men and women generally -- suddenly all women must be treated like poor, weak little victims and all men must be penalized in some way or regarded with distrust (after all, if the number of secret women victims is high, the number of secret rapists must be high as well).
I think both women and men should be agitating for trains to be loaded up with tiny cameras, so we can finally get to the truth of the matter. But then, that also requires an accusation for the tape to be studied, and if women are too frightened to accuse... Well, we can't really get anywhere, then, can we? Unless Japan becomes a matriarchy and men have no power, so finally maybe women will feel OK about accusing them of groping...
| Nakosone | |
| Loki520 (Mar 23 2008 - 14:10) | Rate | Report |
"Women-only cars on trains are good but they are not practical because they are always at the end of the train."
Not practical? A female wants us to belive she gets groped EVERY day and, out of practicality, refuses to walk an extra 80 feet?
A women that won't go even a SLIGHT bit further to protect herself is either simply too lazy, lying, or secretly enjoying the attention. And I'm sure the feminist side will bash me for that last statement. So be it. The truth of the matter is that females WILL go the extra distances to TRULY protect themselves.
And, YES, I agree... the criminal element is at fault. Groping should NEVER happen. Welcome to reality... it is happening. Just because something SHOULD NOT happen, doesn't mean you should not take steps to protect yourself.
And if you make a false claim, you should be jailed. If you can't positively identify who did it, just report that it happened and let the authorities sort it out. If they can't (or won't), then THEY are also part of the problem and need to be held accountable.
Not practical? A female wants us to belive she gets groped EVERY day and, out of practicality, refuses to walk an extra 80 feet?
A women that won't go even a SLIGHT bit further to protect herself is either simply too lazy, lying, or secretly enjoying the attention. And I'm sure the feminist side will bash me for that last statement. So be it. The truth of the matter is that females WILL go the extra distances to TRULY protect themselves.
And, YES, I agree... the criminal element is at fault. Groping should NEVER happen. Welcome to reality... it is happening. Just because something SHOULD NOT happen, doesn't mean you should not take steps to protect yourself.
And if you make a false claim, you should be jailed. If you can't positively identify who did it, just report that it happened and let the authorities sort it out. If they can't (or won't), then THEY are also part of the problem and need to be held accountable.
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